Over the last two years, I have invested in two different high ticket programs. I was completely SOLD before ever talking to either person. I spent over a year following each coach, consultant, guru, or whatever you want to call people who teach people online business. 

Coaches who coach coaches on how to be a coach sounds like bullshit, but the mentorship model has existed forever. The "How To Make Money" niche is the greatest need and the most profitable; why so many coaches have flooded the market in recent decades makes sense. 

We want mentors, and we want to serve others; it's the core of humanity. 

Both coaches whom I was following had and still have great messages. Their marketing is on point because I don't pull my wallet out quickly unless I want to, and I liked what they taught! Their messages are remarkably similar: make more money, change the world, give back to humanity. Change the world with entrepreneurship! 

Since that's my mission, it only makes sense why their stories touched my soul. I didn't buy either Program because I felt lost or confused about online sales; I desired to be in a community of like-minded individuals and grow together. I also thought I would add to my tool bag of knowledge. 

Here are the similarities of both offer stacks:

• Online Self-Led Course
• Weekly Group Coaching
• Other Zoom Meetings with the coaches on their team
• Private Facebook Group
• Price Point: $1k-$2k/month with a no refund contract and 4-12 month commitment

I got full refunds on both programs. First, why? Then, how?

I played full out! I am an ideal client. I show up to every possible meeting, and I get involved. I consumed the entirety of both self-led programs within a day. If you have studied Russell Brunson's Expert Secrets book… well, it's all the same stuff. 

The science of making money is remarkably simple; in fact, it has to be simple, or it doesn't work. (Check out my post on the Science and Art of online business.) Writing is the most challenging part; it's the art of attracting your perfect clients and helping them achieve the results they desire. 

So I didn't learn much from the online course… I shifted my focus to the community; maybe I could get help and support from the experts who have crossed 7-figures. I've been open about my story for a long time; I lead with my story because I don't want anyone to be surprised later. 

When my first coach started posting about "deplorable" pimps and wanting to harm buyers of sex… in his MARKETING, I was shocked. He hadn't opened up about his views before, and wow, were they ugly! I tried to talk with him, but I was only allowed Voxer access (a voice messaging system). We went back and forth for a few days, and he was utterly unteachable. It was painful to watch someone I respected be consumed by anger. The refund is easy. I can't be affiliated with anyone who talks shit about anyone. Period. I asked, and he gave it to me just to get me out of the group. Lol! 

I learned a lot of lessons… mostly that there is a TON of smoke and mirrors. Behind the veil of online entrepreneurship is hella ugly, mainly because it's the same shit that's taught; it's the coach and community that you are actually buying. 

By this year, I was a lot smarter about my investments, and he had multiple levels that would place me in the right community for my mindset, but his only benchmark was how much each person earns per month. 

Right before the sales call, he messaged me this, "we don't let people in [program] who are under $10k/mo. Even if they can pay at a higher level. A couple of messages later, he offered me the higher program as an exception. 

I felt a "special pass" for being almost good enough for the higher level but not quite. I hate being the exception or being given "special" treatment; it's the survivor's head-pat and totally condescending. 

When we got on the sales call, I told him I wanted in the lower level because that's where I qualified, but I would level up as soon as I passed $10k, which was within days. I spent the 40 minutes mainly talking about my plans, what I desired as the results of his Program, and expressing my desires. 

I was very clear about what I wanted to achieve, but I didn't know the other people's mindset within his programs. How could I? I wasn't in the Program yet! 

At this point in the sale, I leave the "soft sale" concept. If you are selling someone something they don't need and it doesn't solve their problem, it's your responsibility to take the sale away or steer them to a different product. The potential client doesn't know all the features and benefits of your offer; you do! 

The entire point of sales is helping people. Selling a car? It provides transportation, safety, and fun! Selling a candle? It provides ambiance and comfort. Selling a program? It provides education and community. If it doesn't help the person solve their problem, DON'T SELL IT TO THEM. 

I asked for help and got a sales pitch and defensiveness. Then more boundaries and defensiveness, still I showed up with 80 other people and watched. There was a big zoom call to generate sales for his business; I signed up and watched as a client for almost three weeks. 

I was thinking, "Why isn't this zoom recording? Did he record our sales call? I don't think so..."

He says, "We record all our sales calls for training…." 

"Hmmm. Interesting. Solid teaching. Good message." 

Then came the Q&A, and I heard the words that revealed his mindset, "people have super short attention spans…." Not only is this not true (Look at how much you just read!), it also indicates that your audience is stupid and lacks an attention span. And to make matters worse, most helpers help other people who help, so the disdain is passed through every client! Ick!!!! Kill that mindset right now! 

People don't have short attention spans; you lack the ability to keep their attention. 

I was already trying to resolve conflict with him around getting help because all I was getting was 2-3 word answers. The community only provided encouragement (which I love but don't need to pay for…). I was ready to break the contract and lost almost $2k and 26.5 hours. 

When I woke up the following day, I had a "fuck that" moment and wrote this:

I need to initiate the refund process. I'm not going to make any money from this teaching because it doesn't solve my problem. 

When I read the text you sent before the sales call, I took it as you were doing me a favor by letting me into the, [blank] program. I didn't want favors, but I was very clear about wanting friends at my level and help with my emails and funnels. (Feel free to review the sales call and the two screenshots.)

I had no clue what was taught at the [BLANK] level or the mindset of participants at the various levels. I trusted you to read deeper than my cash flow numbers and place me in the Program that would fit me best. I feel like I was sold a ford pick up when I was wanting a Rolls Royce, or at least a Cadillac and I was willing to pay for it. 

On thanksgiving when I watched all your courses, I was grateful that you were clear and concise, but it's essentially one of the programs that I teach and have for well over a decade. 

I was very open about where I was in my own education and the direction my business is going. I trusted you to see past my number and offer me the Program that solves my problem. 

The reason I don't want to upgrade is that I was so misaligned in my placement that I'm not certain paying more would solve the problem, especially after the mindset revealed in Tuesday's meeting. Being in the Program is not only costing me money but tons of time, solving problems I don't have. 

I only spend 2 hours a day with my computer open and the time in the group meetings is costing me money rather than making me money. 

I think it's best to peacefully part ways. When I process refunds, it normally takes 5-7 days for the bank to process. Am I correct in assuming it's the same for you? 

Eleven messages later, the refund was processed, and he blocked me. Lol! It is what it is. His defensiveness made me hurt for a man whom I admired. I want his vision to come to life, but some cleaning needs to happen, and clearly, I'm not a part of it.

My biggest lesson was how I invest in myself. I invested in leadership, but I needed to invest in people who helped me lead. Lesson learned, and my team is growing! 

Now the answer you've been waiting for, how to get a refund when you've been duped, starts with the sales process. First, never buy a program without a refund policy. 

There is a vast difference between coaching and programs; if a person is trading time for money, as a one-on-one experience, I break the contract and don't ask for a refund. They spent their time with me, and if their services don't work for me, I cut losses and walk. 

Programs are entirely different; there is no time trade except for my time. The value exchange needs to be equal to or better than what I paid, and courses need to solve the EXACT problem you have. Two days ago, I bought a course for $27. It solved my problem perfectly; there were sales pitches for the following Program, but I didn't need it, the course solved my problem in less than an hour, and I'm grateful for the exchange.

When making the purchase, take a screenshot of the refund policy. Websites change constantly; you need evidence just in case something goes south. 

Do the thing! If it solves your problem, believe in yourself! Take the jump; you will learn a lot about yourself and personal money blocks; it's an emotional experience to pay for your education and take power over your life. 

The second step is how you show up. If you bought a program and didn't show up for the meetings or watch the program, you didn't invest at a high enough price point. Ultimately, it's a self-sabotaging cycle. Buy a program and get the rush of believing in yourself, but the payments or investment isn't enough to motivate you into action, so you let yourself down, or something comes up, and it takes your focus AWAY FROM YOU!!! (Strong indications of codependency.) 

Be your perfect client. Show up, do the work, speak in group meetings, make friends, and reach out during the week. How else do you expect to eliminate the loneliness of online entrepreneurship? The people in paid groups are all there for the same reason, done well; it's a magnificent community. 

When you do those two steps, you will know in the first 30 days when something comes up. 

Banks will typically lean toward protecting the consumer. Making a refund request through the bank harms the relationship between the coach (their business) and the bank. A healthy refund rate for an online program is between 5-10%, anything more, and your merchant accounts will be marked high risk and shut down. 

What's important is HOW the refund is processed. If the business issues a refund, it's standard customer service, resolving problems with unhappy customers. If the client goes to their bank and starts a refund, that's bad news. Now the business has a dispute, and they need to see all the contracts and decide who gets to keep the money. 

Conflicting policies will (almost) always error in favor of the customer, especially in the first 30 days. For example, I paid through a sales funnel that said, "make your money or get your money back." Then I signed a different contract that said no refunds. The bank would have immediately ruled in my favor, but I've never had to take it that far. 

When they are defensive and justifying their behavior while refusing to issue the refund, I ask one question, "Would you like to have the bank decide?" It works. 

How to get a refund for my Program? Just ask. I like Walmarts refund policy. Not happy? Refund. Shoes hurt your feet? Refund. Crisis happens, and you need to return that thing? Refund. Easy. 

 Helping people professionally requires sales with heart, and sometimes that's asking hard questions and saying no. None of that is high pressure; it's honesty. Leadership and compassion; listen, show up, serve, and do what you say you will do, and you won't have a refund problem. 

"Playing with my money is like playing with my emotions." -Big Worm, Friday the movie

P. S. Don't message me and ask me who the coaches are; I won't tell you. Both gave me full refunds, and they are on their journey. Being a part of someone else's karma is quite strange, but all sides have great teaching points.